37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 672859 |
Time | |
Date | 200509 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : gfl.airport |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl single value : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : alb.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Global Express |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 19 |
Flight Phase | descent : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : alb.tracon |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | King Air 100 A/B |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | landing : missed approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 672859 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllerb other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Environmental Factor Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
We were on an IFR flight roc-gfl. When we entered albany approach's airspace; we were told that we could expect a hold due to an IFR aircraft doing a practice GPS RNAV approach to runway 19 in gfl. We asked the controller if he could give us an idea as to where we would hold. He then cleared us to hold on the localizer to runway 1 at gfl at 4000 ft. We started our descent down to 4000 ft and advised that we were given the hold too close and could not give him both the altitude (4000 ft) and the speed for the holding (descent was 11000 ft to 4000 ft). The controller indicated not to worry; just get down to 4000 ft. My copilot and I both made a comment that the controller was saturated. Upon establishing on the first turn inbound on the localizer at 4000 ft; I noticed traffic on the TCAS at the same altitude. The traffic was opposite direction and was level at 4000 ft and closing. My copilot asked the controller about the traffic. The controller then quickly issued the opposing traffic a command to climb and then immediately changed it to a descent. At this time my TCAS issued the TCAS descent RA. I know I just heard the controller tell the other traffic to descend and having a visual on the traffic and seeing him start to descend; I made the decision to climb. Almost simultaneously with that decision; our TCAS reverted its RA to a climb. At this time we were very close to the other aircraft (I would be guessing at how close; but way too close). Had we not heard the controller's command for the other aircraft to descend and had listened to our TCAS RA to descend; this could have been a bad scene. I am assuming that the traffic we were holding for that was inbound to gfl on the GPS to runway 19; was now on his missed approach; that would put him in the same airspace and altitude as the holding instructions we were given.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CARJ FLT CREW EXPERIENCES CONFLICT WHILE ENTERING HOLD AT GFL.
Narrative: WE WERE ON AN IFR FLT ROC-GFL. WHEN WE ENTERED ALBANY APCH'S AIRSPACE; WE WERE TOLD THAT WE COULD EXPECT A HOLD DUE TO AN IFR ACFT DOING A PRACTICE GPS RNAV APCH TO RWY 19 IN GFL. WE ASKED THE CTLR IF HE COULD GIVE US AN IDEA AS TO WHERE WE WOULD HOLD. HE THEN CLRED US TO HOLD ON THE LOC TO RWY 1 AT GFL AT 4000 FT. WE STARTED OUR DSCNT DOWN TO 4000 FT AND ADVISED THAT WE WERE GIVEN THE HOLD TOO CLOSE AND COULD NOT GIVE HIM BOTH THE ALT (4000 FT) AND THE SPD FOR THE HOLDING (DSCNT WAS 11000 FT TO 4000 FT). THE CTLR INDICATED NOT TO WORRY; JUST GET DOWN TO 4000 FT. MY COPLT AND I BOTH MADE A COMMENT THAT THE CTLR WAS SATURATED. UPON ESTABLISHING ON THE FIRST TURN INBOUND ON THE LOC AT 4000 FT; I NOTICED TFC ON THE TCAS AT THE SAME ALT. THE TFC WAS OPPOSITE DIRECTION AND WAS LEVEL AT 4000 FT AND CLOSING. MY COPLT ASKED THE CTLR ABOUT THE TFC. THE CTLR THEN QUICKLY ISSUED THE OPPOSING TFC A COMMAND TO CLB AND THEN IMMEDIATELY CHANGED IT TO A DSCNT. AT THIS TIME MY TCAS ISSUED THE TCAS DSCNT RA. I KNOW I JUST HEARD THE CTLR TELL THE OTHER TFC TO DSND AND HAVING A VISUAL ON THE TFC AND SEEING HIM START TO DSND; I MADE THE DECISION TO CLB. ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THAT DECISION; OUR TCAS REVERTED ITS RA TO A CLB. AT THIS TIME WE WERE VERY CLOSE TO THE OTHER ACFT (I WOULD BE GUESSING AT HOW CLOSE; BUT WAY TOO CLOSE). HAD WE NOT HEARD THE CTLR'S COMMAND FOR THE OTHER ACFT TO DSND AND HAD LISTENED TO OUR TCAS RA TO DSND; THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A BAD SCENE. I AM ASSUMING THAT THE TFC WE WERE HOLDING FOR THAT WAS INBOUND TO GFL ON THE GPS TO RWY 19; WAS NOW ON HIS MISSED APCH; THAT WOULD PUT HIM IN THE SAME AIRSPACE AND ALT AS THE HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS WE WERE GIVEN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.